Transcript for the Piece Audio version of Fats Waller: If You Gotta Ask

Fats Waller: If You Gotta Ask
Radio Script

Music (under): Ain?t Misbehavin? (instrumental)

HOST: EVEN IF YOU DON?T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JAZZ OR STRIDE PIANO, YOU PROBABLY KNOW THE NAME FATS WALLER. IN THE 1930?S AND 40?S, HE WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST STARS IN THE COUNTRY, WELL-KNOWN FOR HIS FUNNY ANTICS, HILARIOUS SONGS AND A SLY WINK AND A NOD TO THE CROWD.

AS THE WORLD CHANGED, STYLES CHANGED AND FATS BECAME A RELIC OF AN EARLIER ERA. AFTER HE DIED IN 1943, HE AND HIS MUSIC DRIFTED OUT OF SIGHT. OVER 30 YEARS LATER, HE CAME BACK INTO THE PUBLIC EYE AND HAS BEEN SINCE RECOGNIZED FOR BEING ONE OF THE BEST PIANISTS, SONGWRITERS AND ENTERTAINERS IN U.S. MUSICAL HISTORY.

IN THE NEXT HOUR, WE?RE GOING TO GET A TASTE OF WHAT FATS LEFT US. WE?LL HEAR FROM MURRAY HORWITZ, WHO WROTE THE PLAY ?AIN?T MISBEHAVIN??, PIANISTS ERIC REED AND JUDY CARMICHAEL, SCHOLARS LOREN SCHOENBERG AND DR. PAUL MACHLIN, AS WELL AS A WHOLE LOT OF MUSIC.

I?M DICK HYMAN, AND WELCOME TO ?FATS WALLER: IF YOU GOTTA ASK.?

Music (under): St. Louis Blues

HOST: FATS WALLER LIVED AN INTENSE LIFE, FIRST PLAYING IN MOVIE THEATERS), THEN MAKING A NAME FOR HIMSELF ON BROADWAY AND ON TO NATIONAL BROADCAST RADIO AND FILMS. HE WAS A MAN OF EXCESS, IN DRINKING, EATING AND STAGE THEATRICS. SOME CONSIDERED THOSE, THOSE THEATRICS PASSE AND BUFFOONISH, BUT BY THE LATE 70?S, FATS WALLER?S NAME AND REPUTATION EMERGED FROM THE CRITICAL MIRE TO THE RECOGNITION HE DESERVED.

THERE?S A LOT TO COVER, SO LET?S GET A BIT OF PERSONAL HISTORY FIRST. HERE?S DR. PAUL MACHLIN, THE ARNOLD BERNHARD PROFESSOR OF ARTS AND HUMANITIES AT COLBY COLLEGE IN MAINE.

Dr. Paul Machlin: His parents, Edward and Adeline Waller, were actually born and raised in Virginia. They came up to New York probably in about 1888, and settled somewhere in the southern area of Manhattan, probably in what is now Greenwich Village. They were affiliated with the Abyssinian Baptist Church, which was in that area, and they kept on moving northward in Manhattan until they located on 134th Street, which is where they were living when Fats was born. He very early on displayed an extraordinary talent for music. Both of his parents were extremely religious. They were, by the time they moved to Harlem, affiliated with a different church. Edward Waller, Fats? father was a storefront preacher and corner preacher, and Fats would occasionally play either an harmonium or other instrument for these services. But his increasing interest in popular music presented a problem for the family relationships because as far as his parents were concerned, popular music was the work of the Devil.

Music (excerpt): Old Grand Dad

HOST: A LITTLE BIT OF FATS WALLER PLAYING ?OLD GRAND DAD.? AGAIN, DR. PAUL MACHLIN.

Dr. Paul Machlin: His mother died when he was 16, and there was a rupture with his father, and he moved out. It was then that his instruction in stride piano, jazz piano began. He went to live with the father of a friend, Russell Brooks, who noticed how good a pianist he was, and it was through Brooks that he met James P. Johnson, who was the undisputed master of this style called stride piano, and probably its founder. He then impressed Johnson with his playing, so Johnson took him on as his student. He was pretty much self taught. One of the ways he taught himself was to sit at the keyboard of a player piano and move the roll just a small bit until chords changed, and then he put his fingers over the keys that were depressed and memorized those chord structures. And it was a remarkable feat, when you think about it, to do that and retain that in your memory, he must have had an extraordinary digital memory to do that. And that was one of the ways he taught himself popular music, particularly jazz, and I think that?s why Johnson would have been pretty impressed with him as well.

HOST: IN 1920?S HARLEM, THERE WERE A COUPLE OF REAL GIANTS OF STRIDE PIANO, WILLIE ?THE LION? SMITH AND JAMES P. JOHNSON WHO WROTE THIS NEXT SONG, ?CAROLINA SHOUT.?

Music: Carolina Shout

HOST: FATS WALLER PERFORMED ?CAROLINA SHOUT,? WRITTEN BY HIS STRIDE PIANO MENTOR JAMES P. JOHNSON.

JOHNSON FORMED HIS STRIDE STYLE AFTER MASTERING BOTH CLASSICAL MUSIC AND THE OTHER POPULAR MUSIC OF THE DAY, RAGTIME. BUT RAGTIME AND STRIDE ARE NOT THE SAME.

JUDY CARMICHAEL IS A PIANIST AND HOST OF THE RADIO SERIES ?JAZZ INSPIRED.?

Judy Carmichael: People always ask me when I?m playing stride if that?s ragtime, and the difference of ragtime and stride. Ragtime is really around the turn of the last century ? late 1800?s, early 1900?s, before jazz even got started, and it was the first popular music, it was called ragtime because of it?s ragged time, so it was the first really popular synchopated music, and most of it was written down and played as written. And then people started playing with it, jazz was coming in, some of the blues was coming up from the South, and people started improvising on it and paring it down, making it a little sparser, not so dense pianistically, and still used that left hand going back and forth from the lower bass notes up to the mid-range of the piano, which was making a striding motion, which is why they used it as a verb, originally and say ?that guy can really stride.?

Music (under): Viper?s Drag

Judy Carmichael: Eventually the people that became great at playing that way they referred to as stride pianists, but stride is really a jazz form as opposed to ragtime, which is more of a synchopated classical form, the way I think of it.

HOST: LOREN SCHOENBERG IS A SAXOPHONIST, ARRANGER, CONDUCTOR AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE JAZZ MUSEUM IN HARLEM.

Loren Schoenberg: You know if there?s one thing that really defines stride piano, it?s the forward momentum that a good stride piano player can get. It?s a very demanding, difficult idiom to play because the left hand, the word stride comes from hitting a low bass note and then jumping up over an octave and hitting a chord, like ?boom chick boom chick, one two three four? or even much faster than that, and a lot of pianists, when they try to play that style, it?s such a challenge to do it that they can?t even think about finesse. They?re just happy to be banging out the notes. And with Fats Waller, he managed to do all these complicated, complicated things which, in terms of style, really stem from James P. Johnson. I mean, that?s the fascinating thing about Waller, is he really wasn?t an innovator in terms of adding something new. What he did was take what people before him had done, like James P and the Lion and added a little bit to it but took it to another level because of his great technique and his compositional abilities.

Judy Carmichael: Unlike some of the other stride players, who had also come out of ragtime, he really lightened it up. It had much more of a jazz feel to me, and hard swinging but at the same time a really nice, light touch.

HOST: HERE?S A SONG THAT SHOWS OFF FATS WALLER?S PLAYING AND WRITING, ?YOU MUST BE LOSING YOUR MIND.?

Music: You Must Be Losing Your Mind

HOST: ?YOU MUST BE LOSING YOUR MIND? PERFORMED BY FATS WALLER AND WRITTEN BY HIM WITH ED KIRKEBY.

MURRAY HORWITZ IS A CULTURAL COMMENTATOR FOR NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO AND THE ORIGINATOR AND CO-AUTHOR OF THE POPULAR MUSICAL SHOW ?AIN?T MISBEHAVIN?.?

Murray Horwitz: In talking about Fats Waller?s music, you cannot go more than two sentences without using the word swing. Nobody swung on a piano any harder than Fats Waller. You could he is one of the inventors of swing. I do. Or certainly one of the perfectors of it. If swing was a phenomenon that was sort of a broad in the music in the early days and on into the 20s that was consolidated by Louis Armstrong, and I sort of subscribe to that theory, then there were others who took it not further than Louis. Nobody swung like Louis. Some people swung as hard as Louis I would argue but they would adapt it to their instruments. They figured out how to make an entire big band of 17 pieces swing hard. Fats certainly did not invent stride piano but he, to my ears, swings, and I?m not a musician, but I think he swings harder than his mentor, James P. Johnson. And the other thing about Fats? swing is there?s something smooth about it. Fats Waller just swung and it seemed effortless. It just seemed smooth as can be. Part of that has to do with his astonishing physical capacities. If you look at the movie of Stormy Weather, for example, there?s a shot of his hands on the keyboard, his hand in a very relaxed position covers the span of an octave, 8 notes, whereas most human beings, even most big men if
there hand was in a relaxed position might cover 6 notes on the piano.

Music (under): Numb Fumblin?

HOST: SHAKING HANDS WITH FATS WALLER WAS DESCRIBED ONCE AS GRABBING A BUNCH OF BANANAS. THEY WERE THAT BIG, AND THAT RANGE ALLOWED FATS TO BECOME A FORMIDABLE PLAYER.

JAZZ PIANIST ERIC REED.

Eric Reed: If you started playing piano during Fats? time, when he was at his peak, you couldn?t help but be influenced by him. But the only thing was that Fats? left hand was more powerful than anybody?s even though James P. Johnson was the father, so called, of the style, ??? Smith was certainly a predecessor and Tatum, nobody could beat him chops-wise but Fats, to me, had he complete package. He had such a strong sense of melody, such a strong sense of swing and time. He had the chops and the left hand was just?you couldn?t mess with that left hand.

HOST: LOREN SCHOENBERG.

Loren Schoenberg: He raised the ante of Jazz piano exponentially. Art Tatum would always mention Fats Waller as his main influence. I used to try and figure that out because outside of some early Tatum records where you can hear a few things that are I guess what you?d call Waller-esque, there music is quite different. And I think a lot of the influence had to do with the actual pianistic technique of Waller. I mean, if you compare Fats Waller to James P. Johnson or the Lion, Willie the Lion Smith or Ellington or Donald Lambert or any of those other folks, he played on a totally different level of finesse. He really played like a wonderfully trained classical piano player, which he was, you know, as a young boy, young man, he learned all these things.

HOST: ERIC REED GIVES US AN EXAMPLE OF FATS WALLER?S ABILITY ON THE PIANO.

Eric Reed: So if you?re playing stride piano and you could play it with just one note in the bass or you could play tense then I just added that middle note. And people like Fats and James P. and Willie the Lion and Art Tatum, they could just fly through those intervals or those chords at really fast tempos. And I?m so jealous of that cuz my hand is just not big enough to reach all of that accurately with like, real cleanness and not, not sound like that. But it?s such a hipper sound. It does help, the question you asked, it does help. It gives you a fuller bass sound so it just gives you a fuller harmonic range of options.

HOST: LET?S HEAR FATS PLAY ON ?HONEYSUCKLE ROSE.?

Music (excerpt): Honeysuckle Rose instrumental

HOST: AN INSTRUMENTAL VERSION OF ?HONEYSUCKLE ROSE? PERFORMED BY FATS WALLER AND HIS BAND.

IN A MINUTE, WE?LL HEAR ABOUT HARLEM IN ITS HEYDAY AND LOOK AT THE SOPHISTICATED COMEDY OF FATS WALLER.

I?M DICK HYMAN, AND YOU?RE LISTENING TO ?FATS WALLER: IF YOU GOTTA ASK.?

Break 1

WELCOME BACK TO ?FATS WALLER: IF YOU GOTTA ASK.? I?M DICK HYMAN.

PROFESSOR OF MUSIC AT COLBY COLLEGE IN MAINE, DR. PAUL MACHLIN.

Dr. Paul Machlin: During those years, Harlem was fast becoming a center, a cultural and economic center and to a certain extent, kind of a capital for African American life in the United States in those early years of the 20th century. In was a very vibrant place. There was a lot going on if you were an African American and it was a place where you could live life in the center of the culture that was very much your own.

HOST: HARLEM, NEW YORK, WAS THE PERFECT PLACE TO BE FOR ANY MUSICIAN, INCLUDING FATS WALLER.

LOREN SCHOENBERG IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE JAZZ MUSEUM IN HARLEM.

Loren Schoenberg; Harlem was a 24-hour music scene, you know, back in the late 19th century, early 20th century. New Orleans was like that. You know, music had a certain kind of functionality. Music wasn?t just something that you went to a nightclub and sat down and listened to. You danced to it; you woke up to it. People played more music because back at the time when Fats Waller was coming up, you know, not that many people had record players and if they did have record players, the sound wasn?t that great. I mean, people played instruments; people played the piano. And so in Harlem, at that time, there was music everywhere? in the theatres and in the clubs, in the shops and in the restaurants. Not to over romanticize it but there was really wall-to-wall music to be found.

Loren Schoenberg: So I think Fats Waller lived in a world that, you know, musicians of today are very envious of because they lived, breathed and drank music in a way that we can?t anymore. Music doesn?t have that role in our culture?s life or at least not this kind of music anyway.

Music (under): St. Louis Blues

HOST: ONE OF THE WAYS FOR A PIANIST TO MAKE A LIVING BACK IN THE 1920?S WAS TO ACCOMPANY SILENT FILMS. SINCE MOST THEATERS HAD AN ORGAN, IT WAS A NATURAL FIT FOR FATS.

LOREN SCHOENBERG.

Loren Schoenberg: I guess he grew up playing in the church; he grew up playing classical music. He was also a wonderful organist. In fact Count Basie, studied the organ and hung out with him, at Fats Waller?s feet, literally when Fats played the organ. So the thing about Fats Waller coming up, he was born what in 1904, so for him coming up, you know, 1919, 1920, 192, was only natural that he?d playing for silent movies and that he?d have to learn how to improvise long pieces of music to go along with a silent film and all the gradations of mood and scene that would take place.

HOST: FATS DID LEARNED A LOT ABOUT DRAMATIC FORM WHILE PLAYING FOR SILENT FILMS IN THOSE DAYS, BUT HIS TALENT ON ORGAN IS WHAT SPURRED HIS RECORD COMPANY TO FIND HIM ONE.

DR. PAUL MACHLIN.

Dr. Paul Machlin: Waller was very lucky in that the Victor recording company whom he first recorded for and ultimately was under exclusive contract to in the 1930s, they had purchased a church, a deconsecrated church in Camden, NJ which had a free, manual pipe organ which was an ST (?), that was the name of the brand, an ST organ. So this organ was in place in what was to become a recording studio.

Music (up)

HOST: FATS WALLER PERFORMED ?ST. LOUIS BLUES? AT THE VICTOR RECORDING STUDIO IN A DECONSECRATED CHURCH IN CAMDEN, NEW JERSEY.

AFTER YEARS OF PLAYING ALONG WITH SILENT FILMS AND AROUND NEW YORK CITY, FATS BEGAN WRITING FOR THE BIGGEST GAME IN TOWN, THE THEATER.

ORIGINATOR AND CO-AUTHOR OF THE MUSICAL ?AIN?T MISBEHAVIN?? MURRAY HORWITZ.

Murray Horwitz: Many of the greatest composers in musical history including in America in the first half on the 20th century were theatre people. It?s really important to remember that. It?s something that has almost been lost. Mozart was writing for the theatre. Wagner was certainly writing for the theatre. I mean, at a certain point, if you were a serious musician, I mean even Beethoven, you gotta write for the theatre or for some dramatic form. In America, we think of these great tunes written by Richard Rogers, these great tunes written by George Gershwin, terrific tunes written by Fats Waller and Cole Porter, it?s important to remember that they were all writing for shows. Fats Waller learned how to play the organ at the Lincoln Theatre, so we?re told at least in part, I?m sure he got training elsewhere including the church, but he did accompany silent films probably both on piano and organ in the 1920s so he was certainly aware of dramatic form and structure through the movies and whatever shows he was doing. And then he was, by the late 20s, and including that miraculous year of 1929 when he writes Honeysuckle Rose and Black and Blue and Ain?t Misbehavin? and I think, Keepin? Out of Mischief, just like dozens of tunes many of which are now standards, he was writing for the show Hot Chocolates which not unlike Ain?t Misbehavin? many years later started off Off-Broadway, in this case in Harlem at Connie?s Inn and moved to Broadway where it ran for a long time at the Hudson Theatre. So Fats? sort of youthful work in the theatre I think has a great deal to do not only with his presentational style but also with his, with his composition.

HOST: LET?S HEAR ONE OF THOSE THEATER TUNES, ?HONEYSUCKLE ROSE.?

Music: Honeysuckle Rose

HOST: ONE OF FATS WALLER?S SONGS THAT BECAME A STANDARD IN THE JAZZ REPERTOIRE, ?HONEYSUCKLE ROSE.?

I?M DICK HYMAN, AND YOU?RE LISTENING TO ?FATS WALLER: IF YOU GOTTA ASK.?

WRITING FOR BROADWAY WAS A PERFECT FIT FOR FATS. WHEN DOING HIS OWN SHOWS, HE WAS A HAM, A TOTAL ENTERTAINER THAT PLAYED POPULAR MUSIC AND KEPT THE CROWD LAUGHING.

MURRAY HORWITZ.

Murray Horwitz: One of the things that I feel very, very strongly about is that Fats Waller was, not only one of the greatest jazz musicians of the first 50 years of the music, also one of the great comedians of the golden age of American comedy that included Groucho Marx, and Gracie Allen, and George Burns, and Fred Allen, and WC Fields, and Tim Moore and a whole pile of other people.

Murray Horwitz: One of the most important things, I think, about Fats Waller?s comedy is that it is genuinely infused with humor. It?s not just jokes. It?s not Henny Youngman. He?s not just a stand-up guy, you know, just schpritzing all the time but he, he lets us k now that we?re all in this thing together. And that?s what the best comedy does. That?s what the best art does. He lets? you know that there is something, he let?s you know what the real deal is. He let?s you know, that, first of all, he knows what the real deal is and he let?s you know that you know what the real deal is and let?s you know that he knows you know what the real deal is so that very often it may be about sex, very often it may be about race or class. It could be about a number?it could be about food. But he let?s you know that no matter what you?re calling it, it?s really something else so that when he says I?d love to know what the poor people are doin? tonight I?d love to be doin? it with ?em, it?s the kind op?that?s certainly a joke that let?s you know that we?re all in this life together and we?re all sorta? goin? to the same place. It?s got great humanity. His humor has great humanity in it.

Music (excerpt): Bessie, Bessie, Bessie

HOST: A BIT OF THE COMEDY SONG ?BESSIE, BESSIE, BESSIE? PERFORMED BY FATS WALLER.

FATS? HUMOR IS VERY SOPHISTICATED.

MURRAY HORWITZ.

Murray Horwitz: That in a way is the very joke of Ain?t Misbehavin?. I mean, Ain?t Misbehavin? is meant to be performed as it is in a short film that Fats did by a person surrounded by members of the opposite sex. The woman to whom he is addressing the song knows that he is very much misbehaving. He knows that she knows he?s misbehaving. And he knows that she would?nt love him as much if he weren?t misbehaving and acknowledging that he?s misbehaving. Who knows, she might be too. And she knows he knows that she knows he?s misbehaving and on and on and on. And that?s the, that?s the genius of Fats? humor in a way. He just has these levels of, not so much meaning but recognition and he?s one of those humorists and comedians in which we see ourselves to a large extent.

Music: Ain?t Misbehavin?

HOST: ?AIN?T MISBEHAVIN?? PERFORMED BY FATS WALLER.

MURRAY HORWITZ.

Murray Horwitz: His art. Fats Waller was an enormously gifted comedian. To my mind, the greatest of all Jazz musicians who ever tried to make people laugh and the best musician among American comedians. I mean, of Jazz musicians, the only people who rival him, I think, as comedy performers are?they don?t even rival him, they come in distant seconds or thirds?Rashaan Roland Kirk and Dizzy Gillespie. They?ve certainly been other funny Jazz musicians. Jazz is in many ways a comic art but nobody could touch Fats. And when it comes to combining music and comedy, the only person I can think of?people I can think of are like Anna Russell and Victor Borga and that?s just another thing entirely. I mean, Fats? comedy swings.

HOST: JAZZ PIANIST ERIC REED.

Eric Reed: It?s always this tongue and cheek like when Fats Waller is singing a song like Christopher Columbus. He?ll sing good ole Christopher Columbus and a part of the song goes and then the crew got merry M-E-R-R-Y then he says the crew got merry and then he says Mary got up and went home. Talking about, you know, the Queen Mary and if you weren?t slick,, if you weren?t hip, you wouldn?t really catch it. You?d go hahahaha cuz of the face he made. But if you listened to it and go back, oh wait a minute Fats you slipped a little one in there.

HOST: LET?S HEAR SOME OF ?CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS.?

Music: Christopher Columbus

HOST: ?CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS? PERFORMED BY FATS WALLER WITH TONGUE FIRMLY IN CHEEK.

IN A MINUTE, WE?LL HEAR MORE COMEDY BY FATS AND HOW IT WAS OFTEN MISUNDERSTOOD, MISINTERPRETED AND BELITTLED.

I?M DICK HYMAN, AND YOU?RE LISTENING TO ?FATS WALLER: IF YOU GOTTA ASK.?

Break 2

HOST: WELCOME BACK TO ?FATS WALLER: IF YOU GOTTA ASK.? I?M DICK HYMAN.

JAZZ PIANIST ERIC REED.

Eric Reed: It?s like watching Michael Jordan play basketball. He doesn?t just throw the ball in the hoop, he?s got throw his tongue out and do some kinda hip move. You know, playing music is not just about the music itself. You know, you got to have a certain sense of entertainment that goes along with it. I believe like when you watch the symphony orchestras or when you watch the concert pianist when they play music by Bach, Beethoven and Chopin, they?re waving there hands all high up in the air and their hair is flowin? and they?re making all these faces. All that is part of entertainment too cuz you don?t have to do all of that to play a note or to make the instrument sound good so it?s gotta be the extra stuff. People love to see that kinda thing. Could you imagine if somebody just sat and played the piano and they looked completely catatonic? They were just completely stiff and all you saw were the hands moving?

HOST: ONE THING FATS WALLER NEVER HAD TO WORRY ABOUT WAS BEING CALLED STIFF OR CATATONIC AT THE PIANO. HE WAS A SHOWMAN IN THE FULLEST SENSE, PROVIDING DRAMA AND COMMENTARY ABOUT THE SONG AS HE PLAYED IT. HIS EYEBROWS WENT UP ANYTYHING FROM A SNEER OR A MISCHEVIOUS SMILE FLASHED ACROSS HIS FACE.

NPR CULTURAL COMMENTATOR AND CO-AUTHOR OF THE MUSICAL ?AIN?T MISBEHAVIN?? MURRAY HORWITZ.

Murray Horwitz: In the contemporary criticisms in the 40s and 50s, in the 40s rather and then later in the 50s, 60s and 70s, you?d read articles by jazz critics who?d say, well of course the clowning was something that the record studios made Fats Waller do to sell his records and that is really an abrogation or, I should say, that?s really a violation of his art.

HOST: PROFESSOR OF MUSIC AT COLBY COLLEGE IN MAINE, DR. PAUL MACHLIN TRACED THAT MISCONCEPTION TO A SERIES OF RECORDINGS THAT FATS WALLER DID IN THE 1930?S.

Dr. Paul Machlin: One of the clich?s about Waller?s work is that in the mid to late 30s, he was required by Victor to record dozens if not hundreds of tin-pan alley songs, many of which were not of particularly original or not of very high quality, the kind of song that can be tossed off fairly quickly, for financial reasons and could be recorded quickly, gotten out with sheet music quickly, dispensed with?the whole point being a kind of an economic return. And, a number of critics in listening to Waller?s recordings of these particular songs from the late 30s, 1936, ?37, ?38, ?39 would tend to dismiss them because of Waller?s way of dealing with them would be to crack jokes and to play through them as fast as he possibly could or, you know, in one take basically. Do the song and get rid of it.

HOST: LET?S HEAR FATS WALLER HAVE A LITTLE FUN WITH THESE SONGS THAT HE WAS REQUIRED TO SING FOR HIS LABEL.

Music (montage): You?re Not The Only Oyster In The Stew/ There?ll Be Some Changes Made/Somebody Stole My Gal/ It?s a Sin To Tell A Lie/ You?re Feets Too Big/ You Run Your Mouth, I?ll Run My Business

HOST: A MINI-SET OF SONGS PERFORMED BY FATS WALLER. UNDER CONTRACT, HE HAD TO MAKE THESE RECORDINGS, SO HE INFUSED THEM WITH ALL THE DRAMA, OUBLE-ENTENDRES AND JOKING THAT HE PUT INTO HIS LIVE ACT. AS ENTERTAINMENT AND EXPECTATIONS CHANGED OVER THE YEARS, FATS WAS OFTEN DISMISSED AS A CLOWN. THOSE CRITICS CLEARLY MISSED THE POINT..

JAZZ PIANIST ERIC REED.

Eric Reed: For me anyway, what I?m starting to recognize about the whole music industry is that you kinda do yourself a disservice by just concentrating so heavily on playing music and not really try to give some kinda edge to your live performance. Like I said, otherwise, people just stay home and listen to records. And it?s hard enough as it is to get people to come out these days anyway. People are just staying indoors more so you have to throw a little entertainment in there. Fats Waller was one of the world?s greatest entertainers. You know, with the eyebrows and the eyes rolling up in the air. There was a certain sense of? a lot of people might consider that, you know, uncle tom or you know coon, and I would consider more muggin? as a term when you make a certain kinda face and it?s funny but it?s just below coon-ing, just below uncle tom and it?s more muggin? which is different. That?s a little bit more acceptable. With coon-ing and uncle tom-ing, it?s like the black face and white lips. That?s a little different. It?s a lot different actually as far as I?m concerned.

HOST: PROFESSOR OF MUSIC DR. PAUL MACHLIN.

Dr. Paul Machlin: If you listen closely to what he?s doing, he?s actually engaging in a kind of African American humor signifying, called signifying. It?s similar to dozens, similar to dissin?, it?s putting something down, critiquing something while you?re actually performing it. So he is satirizing often in very sophisticated ways some of the lyrics that he?s actually singing. It?s not just mere buffoonery. It?s not simple jokes but it?s a much more nuanced and layered kind of humor than that.

Music (excerpt): Ain?t Nothing To It

HOST: FATS WALLER PERFORMED ?AIN?T NOTHING TO IT? WITH ALL OF HIS MISUNDERSTOOD WIT AND CHARM.

MURRAY HORWITZ SEES FATS LEGACY ON ANOTHER FUNNY JAZZ MUSICIAN.

Murray Horwitz: And you know, I think Fats Waller had influenced Dizzie Gillespie. I shouldn?t say I think, I know he did. Cuz if you read Dizzie?s book To Be or Not To Bop, he talks about, you know, how Fats was an inspiration because he was having so much fun and playing great music at the same time. And I think in many ways you can see in Dizzie Gillespie?s wonderful clowning and his wonderful entertaining that he did that he took a page out of the Fats Waller book. Cuz you know Fats never crossed that line of, you know, minstrelsy. He never uncle tom-ed or anything like that. In fact, he had a very sophisticated sense of humor that said a lot of things without really saying them.

HOST: MANY JAZZ MUSICIANS DEAL WITH THAT ?UNSAID? QUALITY IN THEIR WORK.

ERIC REED.

Eric Reed: So when you listen to Thelonius Monk?s music, when you listen to Louis Armstrong?s music, when you listen to Jason Moran or Greg Osby, all taht music is funny to me. Don Byron. There are elements of what they do that are absolutely hilarious so being able to combine the feeling of the music and the idea of not taking one?s self so seriously. You know, it?s like we?re not just playing twelve notes here, we?re also playing ideas, sounds and effects. You know, all of that has to be a large part of it too. And you know Fats was also a great entertainer.

HOST: FATS WALLER?S ABILITIES AS AN ENTERTAINER WERE WELL-KNOWN IN HIS DAY. MURRAY HORWITZ.

Murray Horwitz: He really was maybe the first African American superstar, if we define superstar as something that can only happen in an age of electronic media, he was the first African American to have a network broadcast show, a radio show on CBS and, through recordings and motion pictures and, he was even one of the first Jazz musicians to appear on television in, I think, 1941, in England. He was one of the first media superstars because?and one of the first African American media superstars?and that makes all the more ironic I think the fact that he had been sort of covered over by the dust of American culture by the time the 50s rolled around.

HOST: NO BUSINESS LIKE SHOW BUSINESS TO SEND A SUPERSTAR INTO OBSCURITY SO QUICKLY. AMERICA IN THE 1940?S WAS GOING THROUGH ITS OWN GROWING PAINS AND CHANGING VERY QUICKLY.

EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE JAZZ MUSEUM IN HARLEM LOREN SCHOENBERG.

Loren Schoenberg: There?s a wonderful short story by Eudora Welty that?s supposedly is based on having encountered Fats Waller?s band one night in a low down dive somewhere doing a gig. And you know, although Fats Waller was a big media star, I?m sure that when they booked his small band around the country, they wound up playing their share of small clubs and the occasional dive even though he was a big star. I imagined it must have been very tough, you know, there are some photographs taken of him and his band, I believe, encountering those only old colored-only signs and the segregated south and all that kinda stuff. I guess unless you were there in those shoes, it?s probably hard to even begin to comprehend what it was like.

HOST: FATS TRAVELLED THE COUNTRY, AND IN 1943 WHILE TAKING A TRAIN BACK EAST FROM A VISIT TO HOLLYWOOD, HE DIED OF PNEUMONIA. IT WAS THE RESULT OF MANY YEARS OF ABUSING HIS BODY.

AGAIN, LOREN SCHOENBERG.

Loren Schoenberg: Fats Waller drank a lot, you know, I worked with his guitar player Al Casey for many years. I guess Fats was sadly, well I guess it?s a double-edged thing, he?s one of those people who could drink a lot and still perform and that?s what I guess helped lead to his early demise when he was still in his 30s when he died. I mean, what a tragedy?Late 30s, 39 I guess. I think there was a lot of partying and I think he was the kind of a guy, from what I understand, life was one continual party for him. I think he wanted to have a ball if he could 24 hours a day and he burned out young but what a life he led.

Music (excerpt): All That Meat and No Potatoes

Judy Carmichael: I think it was Ben Webster who said that if only Fats had lived for TV because he would?ve been such a great television star. With that face and that energy!

Murray Horwitz: This is America after all and we have to follow the money and in those days nobody thought of this art as art. They thought of it as commerce. They thought of it as popular culture, something that somebody was doing to make money. And they didn?t think of some of the great popular expressions of American culture as anything worth saving or worth paying attention to. This is no new phenomenon. I mean, classical folks point all the time to the fact that what Mozart was trying to do was write hits and write hit shows but people don?t think of that anymore. They think of Don Giovanni as one of the greatest works in all of western culture. They don?t think of it as a musical, which is what Mozart was trying to do. He was trying to get people to the theatre.

Loren Schoenberg: You know there?s some essence of Fats Wallers? music that does speak to, you know, what America is all about. You know, the styles may have changed and all that kinda stuff but there?s kind of a healthy irreverence in his music that I think people still find very, very attractive and he?d even poke fun at his own songs. I mean, it was all about the how not the what with Fats Waller, I think.

Music (to end): ?Tain?t Nobody?s Biz-ness If I Do

WE FINISH THE SHOW WITH FATS PERFORMING ??TAIN?T NOBODY?S BIZ-NESS IF I DO.?

?FATS WALLER: IF YOU GOTTA ASK? WAS PRODUCED BY JOYRIDE MEDIA, PAUL CHUFFO AND JOSHUA JACKSON ARE THE PRODUCERS.

OUR EXECUTIVE PRODUCER IS JOHN VERNILE.

ALL SONGS ON THIS PROGRAM CAN BE FOUND ON THE SONY BMG LEGACY SET ?FATS WALLER: IF YOU GOTTA ASK, YOU AIN?T GOT IT.?

SPECIAL THANKS GO TO JEFF JONES, ADAM BLOCK, SETH ROTHSTEIN, ERIC MOLK, TOM CORDING, STEVE BERKOWITZ, SHANNON MUELLER, TONY FIORENTINO, STEVE COLLINS, JOSHUA BOEHR, NADINE NASSAR AND ANDY CAHN.

I?M DICK HYMAN, AND THANKS FOR LISTENING.

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