Transcript for the Piece Audio version of Saints and Indians

SAINTS AND INDIANS
A LOOK BACK AT THE LDS INDIAN STUDENT PLACEMENT PROGRAM

BY KATE DAVIDSON
ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO
1/23/05

MAN ONE: TO THIS DAY, AUGUST IS THE MONTH I DREAD THE MOST, BECAUSE THAT WAS THE MONTH I ALWAYS LEFT TO GO ON PLACEMENT. SOMEHOW IT WAS ALWAYS RAINING WHEN WE GOT ON THE BUS, THERE WAS FLOODS. SO EVERY YEAR I ALWAYS ASSOCIATE THOSE RAINY AUGUST DAYS WITH HAVING TO LEAVE HOME AGAIN.

(JAUNTY MUSIC)

FILM: THIS IS A TRUE STORY ABOUT AN EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM THAT ANUALLY SENDS SEVERAL HUNDRED MORMON INDIAN CHILDREN FROM THE RESERVATIONS OF ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO TO TEMPORARY FOSTER HOMES IN UTAH, WHERE THE CHILDREN SPEND THE SCHOOL YEAR AS MEMBERS OF NON-INDIAN MORMON FAMILIES.

ROSE DENETSOSIE: MY NAME IS ROSE DENETSOSIE AND I WAS ELEVEN YEARS OLD WHEN I WENT ON THE PLACEMENT PROGRAM.

MY DAD WOULD TELL US THAT THE TRADITIONAL WAY OF LIFE WAS GONNA EVENTUALLY PHASE OUT. HE SAYS, ?I WANT YOU SITTING IN NICE OFFICES WHERE IT?S AIR CONDITIONED IN THE SUMMER AND WARM IN THE WINTER AND BE RECEIVING A PAYCHECK FOR IT.?

(SCREECH OF BUS, AMBI RUNS UNDER MAN ONE)

MAN ONE: AND WE ALWAYS LEFT AT NIGHT. BEING THE OLDEST BOY IN MY FAMILY, I ALWAYS TRIED TO PUT ON A BRAVE FACE AND I SWORE I WOULD NEVER CRY. THAT NEVER HAPPENED. I CRIED EVERY TIME. WHEN I GOT IN MY SEAT AND THANKFULLY ALL THE LIGHTS WERE OFF. SO I JUST SAT THERE. AND THEN WE RODE THE BUS ALL NIGHT.

(RUSH OF BUS ON THE FREEWAY)

ROSE DENETSOSIE: WHEN I WOKE UP WE WERE ON THE FREEWAYS AND I JUST REMEMBER SEEING ALL THESE BRIDGES THAT CROSSED OVER, UNDER. AND SEEING IT, IT WAS LIKE HOW DO PEOPLE KNOW WHICH WAY THEY?RE GOING, HOW CAN YOU TELL? AND I FELT LIKE I WAS ENTERING ANOTHER WORLD, WHERE PEOPLE SEEMED TO BE HURRYING EVERYWHERE.

(CROSS FADE FREEWAY WITH FILM MUSIC)

FILM: ARRIVAL AT THE BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY IN PROVO, UTAH MARKS THE END OF THE FIRST STAGE OF THEIR JOURNEY. AND SO IN AN AREA WHERE JUST A HUNDRED YEARS AGO THE CRY ?THE INDIANS ARE COMING!? SENT FEAR INTO THE HEARTS OF THE SETTLERS, NOW THE SAME CRY BRINGS JOYFUL ANTICIPATION TO FAMILIES AND HOMES THROUGHOUT UTAH.

SHARON MUIRBROOK: I?M SHARON MUIRBROOK. OUR FAMILY SETTLED HERE IN NORTH OGDEN AND SETTLED ALONG THE WASATCH FRONT WHEN THE PIONEERS CAME TO UTAH. AND SO WE?VE ALWAYS JUST HAD A LOVE FOR THE, FOR THE INDIANS.

DORY PETERS: MY NAME IS DORY PETERS, I?M FROM, ORIGINALLY FROM RED VALLEY ARIZONA. THEY CALLED MY NAME AND I SAID ?OH NO.? MY FOSTER MOTHER CAME UP AND GAVE ME A HUG. AND, BLOND HAIR, YOU KNOW, BROWN EYES. AND THEIR KIDS WERE JUST BLOND HAIR, THEY WERE THE WHITEST KIDS I?VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE.

(PIANO AND CHATTER OF CONGREGATION, FADES INTO SPEAKER)

SPENCER W. KIMBALL ARCHIVAL TAPE: I WAS ASSIGNED THE TOPIC THIS MORNING CONCERNING THE LAMANITES. THE LORD HAS, THROUGH HIS PROPHETS, PREDICTED THEIR DESTINY, THAT THEY WOULD FALL AND THAT THEY WOULD THEN BE RECOVERED.

ROSE DENETSOSIE: (OVER KIMBALL) THEY USED TO TELL US THAT WE WERE A CHOSEN RACE, THEY USED TO CALL US THE LAMANITES. BUT BECAUSE WE DIDN?T LISTEN TO GOD, WE WERE CURSED AND WE CAME OUT WITH DARK SKINS AND BLACK HAIR.

SPENCER W. KIMBALL ARCHIVAL TAPE: LET ME QUOTE TWO OR THREE SCRIPTURES IN PREFACE. ?BEHOLD THESE SHALL DWINDLE IN UNBELIEF. AND IT CAME TO PASS THAT I BEHELD THAT AFTER THEY HAD DWINDLED IN UNBELIEF THEY BECAME A DARK, A LOATHSOME AND A FILTHY PEOPLE, FULL OF IDLENESS AND ALL MANNER OF ABOMINATIONS.? AGAIN?

CLARENCE BISHOP: MY NAME IS CLARENCE R. BISHOP. I WAS DIRECTOR OF THE INDIAN PLACEMENT PROGRAM.

YOU?VE HEARD ABOUT OUR BOOK OF MORMON. OUR BOOK OF MORMON TALKS ABOUT THE DAY OF THE LAMANITE, WHEN THE CHURCH WOULD MAKE AN ESPECIAL EFFORT TO BUILD AND RECLAIM A FALLEN PEOPLE. AND SOME PEOPLE WILL SAY, WELL FALLEN FROM WHAT? I MEAN, THEY AREN?T FALLEN, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN CULTURE, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN THIS, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN THAT. BUT ACCORDING TO THE BOOK OF MORMON, THEY ORIGINALLY HAD THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.

ROSE DENETSOSIE: THEY WOULD TELL US NOW IT?S YOUR JOB TO GO HOME AND TO TEACH YOUR FAMILY ABOUT THE CHURCH AND TO HELP THEM UNDERSTAND IT SO THEY CAN ? THEY DIDN?T SAY SO THEY CAN BE SAVED. SO THAT THEY CAN BLOSSOM LIKE THE ROSE, TOO.

(PSALM, CROSS FADES WITH SHEEP BELLS UNDER LAURA)

LAURA BROWN: MY NAME IS LAURA BROWN. I CAME FROM A FAMILY OF ONE OLDER BROTHER, SIX YOUNGER AND ONE YOUNGER SISTER. AND I REMEMBER HERDING SHEEP AND HERDING CATTLE FOR MY GRANDMOTHER. AND I REMEMBER A LOT OF DRINKING ON MY DAD?S PART. AND PHYSICAL ABUSE BECAUSE OF THAT. LATER ON MY MOTHER TOLD US THAT WHEN SHE HEARD OF THE PLACEMENT PROGRAM SHE SAW A WAY OUT FOR HER CHILDREN.

LORRAINE NELSON: (IN NAVAJO, ENGLISH OVER) MY HUSBAND IS, HE?S DRINKING A LOT. AND HE DIDN?T THINK ABOUT THOSE KIDS. I DO. I WANTED TO RAISE GOOD. THAT?S WHY.

(OUT SHEEP BELLS, FADE TO BLACK)

DORY PETERS: GROWING UP, WE WOULD ALWAYS WATCH WHITE PEOPLE FROM A DISTANCE. AND I ALWAYS WAS KIND OF CURIOUS AND SEE, HOW DO THEY LIVE, DO THEY LIVE LIKE US? OBVIOUSLY THEY DON?T, WHICH I FOUND OUT.

THE FIRST THING I NOTICED WAS THE SMELL. EVERYTHING SMELLED DIFFERENT. I MEAN, I MISSED THE CEDAR OF THE RESERVATION, THE SAGE AND THE RAIN AND THE SMELL OF MY GRANDFATHER DOING HIS CEREMONIES AND SO FORTH. AND IN THE WHITE MAN?S WORLD IT WAS, EVERYTHING WAS, IT SMELLED LIKE PLASTIC, IT SMELLED LIKE METAL.

(BIRD CHIRP)

LAURA BROWN: I WAS AMAZED AT THEIR BEAUTIFUL HOME. AND THEIR YARD WAS JUST BEAUTIFUL AND THEY HAD A POMEGRANATE TREE. AND, AH, GRAPES AND FLOWERS AND A LAWN. AND IT WAS JUST BEAUTIFUL TO ME. I SHARED A ROOM WITH MY FOSTER SISTER, DEBBIE. I THINK WE VACUUMED EVERY DAY OR EVERY OTHER DAY. IT ALWAYS SEEMED LIKE, I DON?T UNDERSTAND WHY WE HAVE TO VACUUM. THERE?S NO DIRT ON THE FLOOR. (LAUGHS)

AND I REMEMBER BEING AWARE OF ALL THE THINGS THAT THEY DID THAT WE DIDN?T DO. AND ALL THE THINGS THAT THEY DID THAT I LIKED. HOW THEY SAID FAMILY PRAYER TOGETHER BEFORE THEY WENT TO BED. AND EVERYBODY GOT A HUG AND KISSED EACH OTHER GOODNIGHT. AND I THOUGHT, THIS IS WHAT I?M GONNA TO DO WHEN I HAVE A FAMILY.

SHARON MUIRBROOK: HE SEEMED TO NOT HAVE A VERY HIGH ESTEEM. IN FACT, JUST TO PUT IT KIND OF BLUNTLY, DORY DIDN?T SEEM TO EVEN LIKE HIS CULTURE, TO BE AN INDIAN. WHEN WE WE?D HAVE THE ORDER OF THE ARROW COME AND DO THE DANCES, THE INDIAN DANCES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, HE WOULD GO IN THE OTHER ROOM, HE DIDN?T EVEN WANT TO BE AROUND IT. OR WE?D SEE OTHER INDIANS AND HE WOULD TURN AND GO THE OTHER WAY.

DORY PETERS: I THINK WHEN I WAS GROWING UP I, I DIDN?T WANT TO BE NAVAJO. THEY WOULD SAY, ?ARE YOU INDIAN?? AND I WOULD SAY NO. AND I WOULD JUST DENY IT. BECAUSE I DIDN?T WANT TO GET INTO THE SITUATION WHERE I HAD TO EXPLAIN MYSELF. I DIDN?T FEEL COMFORTABLE, I DIDN?T WANT TO, I DIDN?T WANT TO GO THERE, I JUST WANTED TO BE NORMAL, I JUST WANTED?MY FRIENDS TO SAY, ?HE?S JUST DORY, THAT?S WHO HE IS, HE?S NOT WHITE, HE?S NOT BLACK, HE?S NOT INDIAN, HE?S JUST MY FRIEND.? AND THAT?S ALL I WANTED TO BE.

(COLD START NAVAJO LULLABY, RUNS UNDER MAN ONE AND ROSE)

MAN ONE: IT TAKES A REAL THICK SKIN IN ORDER TO BE A PERSON OF COLOR AND THEN ALSO TO HAVE TO LIVE IN TWO WORLDS. AT FIVE YEARS OLDS I WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR TAKING THE HORSES TO THE WATER. AND I RODE THOSE HORSES BAREBACK. THAT WAS MY JOB. SO I HAD A GREAT SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR, FOR THE THINGS I DO. AND THEN I HAD TO GO ON PLACEMENT. AND I WENT TO A PLACE WHERE EVERYTHING I HAD WAS NOT ACKNOWLEDGED, WAS TAKEN FOR GRANTED. AND NOTHING OF VALUE THAT I HAD AND DID WAS WORTH ANYTHING TO THEM.

(POST LULLABY)

ROSE DENETSOSIE: THERE WAS ALSO CONSTANT CONFLICT WITH THE BELIEFS. JUST THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE CHURCH, LEARNING TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

I GUESS EACH STUDENT HAD DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES BUT MY EXPERIENCE WAS THAT BEFORE WE LEFT EVERY YEAR TO COME HOME THEY WOULD TELL US, ?MAKE SURE YOU GO TO CHURCH, DON?T GO TO ANY CEREMONIES LIKE SQUAW DANCES, DON?T HAVE ANY CEREMONIES.? BUT MY FAMILY ALWAYS HAD A BEAUTY WAY CEREMONY, FOR EACH OF US. IT WAS TO BLESS OUR MINDS AND TO MAKE US STRONG SO THAT WE WOULDN?T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH LEARNING.

WHEN WE USED TO GO BACK, THEY WOULD ASK US, ?DID YOU HAVE ANY CEREMONIES?? AND I WOULD HAVE TO SAY NO. SO, I FELT LIKE I WAS VIOLATING BOTH, I WASN?T BEING TRUE TO MY CULTURE AND I WASN?T BEING HONEST WITH THE OTHER CULTURE.

(END LULLABY)

CLARENCE BISHOP: WHAT IS CULTURE? AND WHEN IS IT GOOD AND WHEN IS IT BAD? AND WHAT?S SACRED ABOUT IT? MY GRANDMOTHER CAME FROM DENMARK. SHE GAVE UP HER COMPLETE CULTURE TO COME TO AMERICA AND BE A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH. IS THAT WRONG? IS THAT BAD? WHICH CULTURE DID THESE CHILDREN GIVE UP? DID THEY GIVE UP THEIR ORIGINAL CULTURE, WHERE THEY HAD THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST IN THEIR LIFE? OR DID THEY GIVE UP ANOTHER CULTURE THAT THEY CAME TO WHEN THEY LEFT THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST?

LAURA BROWN: I BELONG TO THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. AND ALL THE TEACHINGS THAT IT HAS, I FIRMLY BELIEVE.

I ALWAYS FELT AT THE BEGINNING THAT I WAS NOT AS GOOD AS WHITE PEOPLE. BUT AS I GREW UP AND FROM THE THINGS I LEARNED FROM THE PLACEMENT AND ALSO FROM THE THINGS I LEARNED FROM CHURCH, I FINALLY GOT TO THE POINT WHERE I DIDN?T FEEL THAT WAY ANYMORE. AND I SEE ALL THOSE POSITIVE THINGS WITH MY CHILDREN. THEY CAN FUNCTION IN AN ANGLO WORLD AS WELL AS THE NATIVE WORLD, AND THEY?RE NOT AFRAID OF EITHER ONE.

FLOYD NELSON: MY NAME IS FLOYD NELSON. THE CHURCH HAS BEEN A TREMENDOUS BLESSING FOR ME. I?VE COME TO UNDERSTAND WHO I AM AS A NATIVE AMERICAN THROUGH THE BOOK OF MORMON. YES, WE HAVE A CURSED SKIN TO IDENTIFY WHO WE ARE. BUT I DON?T LOOK AT IT AS A CURSE, I LOOK AT IT AS A BLESSING. THE BOOK OF MORMON TEACHES US THAT THE NATIVE AMERICANS WILL RISE, RISE UP IN POWER AGAIN, WILL BECOME A PEOPLE WHO WILL FINALLY FIGURE OUT WHO THEIR GOD IS.

ROSE DENETSOSIE: SOMETIMES EVEN NOW, SOMETIMES I KIND OF SLIP BACK INTO THAT. THE GUILT THAT I USED TO FEEL, EVEN THOUGH I DON?T GO TO CHURCH ANYMORE. SOMETIMES I HAVE FLASHBACKS TO HOW IT USED TO FEEL. WHEN I?D GO THROUGH A CEREMONY, AND OF COURSE IT?S ALWAYS A RELIEF TO KNOW THAT I?M AN ADULT AND I DON?T HAVE TO CARRY THAT, AT ALL.

SHARON MUIRBROOK: WE SO MUCH WANTED DORY TO KEEP HIS CULTURE STRONG. WE FELT LIKE THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT, WE NEVER WANTED TO TAKE ANY OF THAT FROM HIM. IN FACT, WHEN HE STARTED DATING WE SAID, ?DATE INDIAN GIRLS. YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR LINES PURE AND CLEAN, YOU KNOW KEEP THAT NAVAJO LINE PURE.? BUT HE DIDN?T DO THAT. (LAUGHS) HE, HE MARRIED A WHITE GIRL, SO. AND THEY HAVE BEAUTIFUL CHILDREN, WE JUST LOVE ?EM TO DEATH. BUT WE REALLY WANTED, TRIED TO ENCOURAGE HIM TO DATE INDIAN GIRLS.

MAN ONE: TO THIS DAY, AUGUST IS THE MONTH I DREAD THE MOST, BECAUSE THAT WAS THE MONTH THAT I ALWAYS LEFT TO GO ON PLACEMENT.

I WAKE UP FEELING EMPTY. THAT SOMETHING SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN THERE BUT WASN?T THERE, WAS DENIED ME OR TAKEN AWAY. IT?S JUST A FEELING OF SOMETHING MISSING. THAT I BONDED MORE WITH PEOPLE THAT WEREN?T OF MY FAMILY. AND THEY?RE NOT IN MY LIFE ANYMORE. AND THEY HAVEN?T BEEN IN MY LIFE FOR, FOR MANY YEARS.

AND, ONE OF THE SECRET DESIRES THAT?S ALWAYS BEEN IN MY HEART IS THAT I WOULD SEE MY FOSTER BROTHERS OR MY FOSTER SISTERS THERE AT THE DOOR OF MY PARENTS? PLACE. BECAUSE I THOUGHT THEY ONLY KNEW, MAYBE LESS THAN HALF OF WHO I REALLY WAS. BUT, IT HASN?T HAPPENED TO THIS DAY.

(MUSIC)

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